Attention all RoH - Please Read!

[Alyssia Kanath]

My brothers and sisters,

We have been approached by the woman Alira Drakrul in regards to creating a non agression pact between the Rangers of the Heart and herself. She has moved her operations into the Spiritwood and claimed it as her territory. I will warn you up front, the woman is a vampire...and the daughter of Azrael. She is dangerous just as any of her ilk are considered dangerous. She however does seem to hold a genuine interest in peace and wishes just to be able to operate quietly and without molestation within the Skara Brae Area.

Under normal circumstances, Raina and I would not only advise against this course of action...but stand with you all to destroy what threat existed. However after discussions with Alira...she has offered to us and the Spiritwood her protection from others of her kind, and also to defend the Spiritwood and Skara Brae area in case of any outside threat. (Such as the Ophidians, and she has been fighting along side those pushing the snakes back to their lands).

Given the threat that the other Kindred vampires present, this agreement...if it worked...would allow us to focus our attentions to more pressing issues and allow Alira to deal with them. We of course reserve the right to void the contract if we saw that she was beginning to pose a threat herself. Though honestly at this moment, as I said she wishes to only operate without having to worry about her or those with her to be constantly harried by us. Raina and I think that perhaps we should give this a chance. Nothing would stop us from calling the contract void and taking up arms against her if the need should arise.

I have drawn up a treaty to present to her, I would like each of you to read it and add / change / approve or disaprove as you see fit. I have worded it carefully, and it is very restrictive upon her. I suspect that if presented she will attempt to haggle with us... But here it is as of this moment:

This document will act as an official treaty of peace and kinship between the parties of Alira Drakrul and the Rangers of the Heart. It's juristiction will encompass the entirety of the Spiritwood and Skara Brae area in regards to the defense and well being of the forest, the people, and the creatures who define the area's population. It is a treaty of non agression between these two parties, and upon signing of this document both parties agree to the following terms and conditions:

The party of Alira Drakrul and all those under her control do not kill / abduct / torture / wound or otherwise cause harm to any living being within the Spiritwood and lands of Skara Brae.

The party of Alira Drakrul and all those under her control, respect the natural balance within the Spiritwood and seek not to harm or destroy the land and those creatures who inhabit it within the designated area of the Spiritwood and the Skara Brae.

The party of Alira Drakrul and all those under her control will seek to defend the Spiritwood and area of the Skara Brae from others of her ilk / kin (Kindred Vampire and / or those under the control of such) who WOULD seek to cause / do harm to those areas, and will see that the above does not happen to the best of her / their abilities.

The party of Alira Drakrul and all those under her control ensure to the greatest of their ability, the defense and well being of the lands of the Spiritwood and the Skara Brae area and will assist in the encroaching of any outside forces bent on destruction and or control of the above mentioned lands.

The building of Que's Tavern and all those buildings associated with the Rangers of the Heart are under the strict jurisdiction and control of the Rangers of the Heart. The party of Alira Drakrul and all those under her control will, while within any of these buildings, seek not to disrespect, harass, harm in any way / shape / form or upon any level any person (s) associated or within those buildings. She and her kin / ilk will also defer to the Rangers of the Heart within these designated buildings in / if hostilities erupt, and if asked / called to do so, will cease / desist / disarm / evacuate the area if the consensus of the Rangers present deem such action to be warrented / necesary.

In return for agreement to and signing of these above stated terms and conditions,

The Rangers of the Heart will not hunt / harass / attempt the destruction of Alira Drakrul and all those under her control. These parties will be allowed to remain within the Spiritwood and Skara Brae area. They will be allowed to operate without molestation by the Rangers of the Heart and those associated with the Dihn. Only, if the signing parties break any / all of the above mentioned conditions will this official document be instantly considered null and void, allowing immediate action by the Rangers of the Heart and the ability to defend the lands in which they hold interest from the above parties in any way they see fit.

[Kyrian]

My brothers and sisters,

We have been approached by the woman Alira Drakrul in regards to creating a non agression pact between the Rangers of the Heart and herself. She has moved her operations into the Spiritwood and claimed it as her territory. I will warn you up front, the woman is a vampire...and the daughter of Azrael. She is dangerous just as any of her ilk are considered dangerous. She however does seem to hold a genuine interest in peace and wishes just to be able to operate quietly and without molestation within the Skara Brae Area.

Under normal circumstances, Raina and I would not only advise against this course of action...but stand with you all to destroy what threat existed. However after discussions with Alira...she has offered to us and the Spiritwood her protection from others of her kind, and also to defend the Spiritwood and Skara Brae area in case of any outside threat. (Such as the Ophidians, and she has been fighting along side those pushing the snakes back to their lands).

Given the threat that the other Kindred vampires present, this agreement...if it worked...would allow us to focus our attentions to more pressing issues and allow Alira to deal with them. We of course reserve the right to void the contract if we saw that she was beginning to pose a threat herself. Though honestly at this moment, as I said she wishes to only operate without having to worry about her or those with her to be constantly harried by us. Raina and I think that perhaps we should give this a chance. Nothing would stop us from calling the contract void and taking up arms against her if the need should arise.

I have drawn up a treaty to present to her, I would like each of you to read it and add / change / approve or disaprove as you see fit. I have worded it carefully, and it is very restrictive upon her. I suspect that if presented she will attempt to haggle with us... But here it is as of this moment:

This document will act as an official treaty of peace and kinship between the parties of Alira Drakrul and the Rangers of the Heart. It's juristiction will encompass the entirety of the Spiritwood and Skara Brae area in regards to the defense and well being of the forest, the people, and the creatures who define the area's population. It is a treaty of non agression between these two parties, and upon signing of this document both parties agree to the following terms and conditions:

The party of Alira Drakrul and all those under her control do not kill / abduct / torture / wound or otherwise cause harm to any living being within the Spiritwood and lands of Skara Brae.

The party of Alira Drakrul and all those under her control, respect the natural balance within the Spiritwood and seek not to harm or destroy the land and those creatures who inhabit it within the designated area of the Spiritwood and the Skara Brae.

The party of Alira Drakrul and all those under her control will seek to defend the Spiritwood and area of the Skara Brae from others of her ilk / kin (Kindred Vampire and / or those under the control of such) who WOULD seek to cause / do harm to those areas, and will see that the above does not happen to the best of her / their abilities.

The party of Alira Drakrul and all those under her control ensure to the greatest of their ability, the defense and well being of the lands of the Spiritwood and the Skara Brae area and will assist in the encroaching of any outside forces bent on destruction and or control of the above mentioned lands.

The building of Que's Tavern and all those buildings associated with the Rangers of the Heart are under the strict jurisdiction and control of the Rangers of the Heart. The party of Alira Drakrul and all those under her control will, while within any of these buildings, seek not to disrespect, harass, harm in any way / shape / form or upon any level any person (s) associated or within those buildings. She and her kin / ilk will also defer to the Rangers of the Heart within these designated buildings in / if hostilities erupt, and if asked / called to do so, will cease / desist / disarm / evacuate the area if the consensus of the Rangers present deem such accent to be warrented / necesary.

In return for agreement to and signing of these above stated terms and conditions,

The Rangers of the Heart will not hunt / harass / attempt the destruction of Alira Drakrul and all those under her control. These parties will be allowed to remain within the Spiritwood and Skara Brae area. They will be allowed to operate without molestation by the Rangers of the Heart and those associated with the Dihn. Only, if the signing parties break any / all of the above mentioned conditions will this official document be instantly considered null and void, allowing immediate action by the Rangers of the Heart and the ability to defend the lands in which they hold interest from the above parties in any way they see fit.


Strange days in Ultima Online :)

So ... what does this vampire use for sustenance, outside of all of the animals we by nature defend? :)

[Alyssia Kanath]

Blood of course *grins*

Notice however ...that in the treaty I specifically noted "Not wound / harm any living creature" That right there would restrict their feeding off of anything in Spiritwood, forcing them to go outside it to do so.

I suspect she will argue it *winks*

[Raina]

Strange days in Ultima Online :)

So ... what does this vampire use for sustenance, outside of all of the animals we by nature defend? :)

Well, blood of course, but generally not that from Animals exactly... However it's not necessicarily inherent that a Vampire kill or harm someone to feed. The question isn't necessrily if it's something we want to have happening, the question more over is, what do we want to prevent. Should something like this happen, there would be nothing stoping any of her kind from say... Putting the fear of all things into poor wandering healeres, who might then stop roaming the lands for fear of being slain.

So I think their kinda could be a real help, or a real hinderance, and it's in our best interested overall to make sure it's the former, where we can keep an eye on what is going on, and have support in both other worldly and mundane goings on.

-Rai

[Kyrian]

Blood of course *grins*

Notice however ...that in the treaty I specifically noted "Not wound / harm any living creature" That right there would restrict their feeding off of anything in Spiritwood, forcing them to go outside it to do so.

I suspect she will argue it *winks*

Makes for some good role play ...

* Vampire has bunny in hands, mouth open *
* Alyssia Appears from the shadows *
AK: You weren't going to eat that poor bunny were you?
Vamp: Oh, this bunny? Noooo, of course not. Cute little things ...
* Vampire pats bunny on head with a smile and then puts it on the ground. It runs in terror *
AK: Just checking *with a grin*

:P

[Alyssia Kanath]

*falls over laughing*

Kyrian...! I adore you!

*Alyssia mutters somethin' about her becomin' a bunny pettin' tree hugger at some point...figures....*

[Kuile the Falcon]

i have no idea how kuile will react. he generally thinks all vampires are at the very least, untrustworthy. getting him to agree to a treaty with one may be interesting.

[Alyssia Kanath]

Aye, but then again that's part of the point.

Even if this "treaty" doesn't go through it's at least opened up some neat and interesting RP between the two parties. *grins*

[Raina]

Yea,I see it less of a 'treaty' and more of a non-agression pact, kinda an arangement to not cause harm to the other, I don't think there is inherently in there that says if one or the other party gets in trouble, the second party has to come to their rescue, simply a pact of live and let live.

-Rai

[Alyssia Kanath]

Good point. Non agression pact IS a better term.

[Sybeus]

I have a few questions about the agreement.

First, I don't know about the rest of you, but I haven't made any claims on any territory except my own house, nor do I remember the RoH in general making any claims. We are the most concentrated in the Spiritwood, but we have brothers and sisters that call other areas home as well, and which they defend just as dearly. So is there any reason we are restricting the agreement to just the Spiritwood and Skara Brae? What about the rangers in Yew and Deep Forest area or that my hometown is actually Cove which I help defend from orcs on occasion (which Sybeus hasn't yet found out there are troubles with KoI there recently). Or is this simply a method to keep a least some area completely safe, since asking for the entire land to be safe is simply to absurd to request?

Second, I know Aly has a vampire acquantance(or maybe more), but I'm not so sure Sybeus would honour any agreement made with their kind. Cause if the agreement says we won't hurt their kind, and I see some vampire attacking someone I hold dear outside the Spiritwood area, Sybeus would jump in without a second thought. Does that break the pact? Or again, does this non-aggression pact only hold within the Spiritwood area? Cause then it sounds more like a in general Spiritwood treaty rather than non-aggression pact with us specifically.

Third, how is the pact any different from what happens today? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the agreement basically says if they don't do anything bad, we won't try anything against them. To me, that sounds an awful lot like how we act in general towards anyone, vampire or not.

[Alyssia Kanath]

Excellent questions!

And you're correct.

The RoH never did "lay claim" on any land, we were just sworn defenders of the Spiritwood, and past that...the forest in general...including all homelands from which we hailed...aye?

The whole rigamaroll of an agreement is just a request from Alira...basically because that's how her kind work. The vampires tend to be very organized and literal. And they have laws / pacts / treaties etc...that's how they operate.

Now the Rangers "operate" in a more passive way. But in order for us to make our intentions understandable to her I'd think....is by giving her our stance in written technical form. That's what they understand.

And the agreement doesn't say we won't hurt any of "her kind" it just says we won't act agressively to those under her CONTROL unless given reason. And if we are given reason to do so we will act regardless. If she or those under her control break the rules as written then we have full right to jump in and defend ourselves, those we care about and the land we defend. And it only covers those areas in which we defend and she's marked as her "territory" within those areas.

And yes it IS how we act in general. *grins* This is just putting it in a way that the vampires are more comfortable with and understand better. So there's less "misunderstandings"

Does that kinda answer some of your questions hon?

[Alyssia Kanath]

Just to be clear...

No one is trying to get any of you to necesarily agree to this or any other treaty / non agression pact.

Alyssia was asked to draw one up and so she did. She doesn't necesarily agree with it either.

This is something for everyone to look at and see how they feel , and is a means for IC interaction, debate, and relations between the RoH and the Covenant of Onyx Flame. It is to be used as a RP springboard.

So just everyone remember...no one's trying to get the RoH to agree to doing anything specific, nor are Rai and I trying to sway opinions one way or another. We're just offering objective viewpoints.

Just thought I should make that clear. *grins*

[Sybeus]

Excellent questions!

And you're correct.

The RoH never did "lay claim" on any land, we were just sworn defenders of the Spiritwood, and past that...the forest in general...including all homelands from which we hailed...aye?

The whole rigamaroll of an agreement is just a request from Alira...basically because that's how her kind work. The vampires tend to be very organized and literal. And they have laws / pacts / treaties etc...that's how they operate.

Now the Rangers "operate" in a more passive way. But in order for us to make our intentions understandable to her I'd think....is by giving her our stance in written technical form. That's what they understand.

And the agreement doesn't say we won't hurt any of "her kind" it just says we won't act agressively to those under her CONTROL unless given reason. And if we are given reason to do so we will act regardless. If she or those under her control break the rules as written then we have full right to jump in and defend ourselves, those we care about and the land we defend. And it only covers those areas in which we defend and she's marked as her "territory" within those areas.

And yes it IS how we act in general. *grins* This is just putting it in a way that the vampires are more comfortable with and understand better. So there's less "misunderstandings"

Does that kinda answer some of your questions hon?

Yes, that answers the questions I had, but it brings up some points about the agreement now that I understand the purpose of the agreement better...

The way the agreement is stated now it simply says, for the conditions put on Alira & company, the RoH will not harm Alira & company. There is no conditions put on Alira and company outside the Spiritwood. So one could argue within the context of the agreement that we can not harm Alira & company for what they do outside Spiritwood, since they are upholding their end of the agreement.

Also, by most contract law, conflict in conditions either invalidates both, or are numbered by precedence to invalidate one or the other based on the situation. The agreement has conflicting conditions of not causing harm to any in Spiritwood, and to defend against those who mean it harm (which could well mean have to harm someone within Spiritwood to defend the land).

Just thought I'd bring those points up. Not to be nit-picky, but to help reduce any attempted warping of the agreement by Alira and company.

[Raina]

I have a few questions about the agreement.

First, I don't know about the rest of you, but I haven't made any claims on any territory except my own house, nor do I remember the RoH in general making any claims. We are the most concentrated in the Spiritwood, but we have brothers and sisters that call other areas home as well, and which they defend just as dearly. So is there any reason we are restricting the agreement to just the Spiritwood and Skara Brae? What about the rangers in Yew and Deep Forest area or that my hometown is actually Cove which I help defend from orcs on occasion (which Sybeus hasn't yet found out there are troubles with KoI there recently). Or is this simply a method to keep a least some area completely safe, since asking for the entire land to be safe is simply to absurd to request?

Yea, it's not about specific property ownership, it's more about who's around in the spiritwood area, right now the only real Roleplaying Guild in that area is the RoH. That doesn't mean the RoH OWN that area, but they are frequent there, and argueably a force to be rekoned with, as if something happens to/in/with that area, the RoH will surely respond.

Vampires tend to work a bit different with their methods, they tend to be very 'animalistic' in their teritorial disputs, they kinda regulate living/hunting grounds like animals do, and tend not to welcome intruders hunting in those areas. Alira is offering her assistance in keeping the Spiritwood area free from such otherworldly troubles as other vampires and creatures coming in and causing trouble to the area.

So she's not asking to own any of the property, just looking for a means in which to co-exist with the Rangers for their mutual benifit, and to help keep safe this region. As while the Rangers do often help with any region that may see issues, were they to choose I believe most rangers would first defend the Spriritwoods and then defend others that are in need of help.


Second, I know Aly has a vampire acquantance(or maybe more), but I'm not so sure Sybeus would honour any agreement made with their kind. Cause if the agreement says we won't hurt their kind, and I see some vampire attacking someone I hold dear outside the Spiritwood area, Sybeus would jump in without a second thought. Does that break the pact? Or again, does this non-aggression pact only hold within the Spiritwood area? Cause then it sounds more like a in general Spiritwood treaty rather than non-aggression pact with us specifically.

Well if you saw some vampire attacking someone you hold dear, noone would fault you for defending your friend, the chances of it being one we have the agreement with would be pretty small. Even so, outside the area it wouldn't specificly break the pact, in fact inside the area the pact would have already been broken by the vampire attacking whomever, so the Ranger would be in the right to defend.

The premise behind it is so that, for example, the Rangers don't break into her house during the day and drag her outside, and likewise she and hers wouldn't sneak into your house and ruin your sheets.


Third, how is the pact any different from what happens today? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the agreement basically says if they don't do anything bad, we won't try anything against them. To me, that sounds an awful lot like how we act in general towards anyone, vampire or not.

It's to kinda make it more official, if less needed for the Rangers and more a benifit for the Vampires in this regard perhaps, however the alternative could very well be more unmitigated chaos. For example, during the Ophidian's Invasion, what would fighting that war have been like if all the healers had gone into hiding for fear of being attacked by vampires? If a Ranger is hunting and falls, there would be noone to assist them in recouperating. In this regard it's better for the Rangers as well, to keep the Spiritwood a happy place, for laying blame on something like the above would be near impossible.

Just my thoughts on answers, but like Aly said, this doesn't HAVE to happen, it's simply a story/event for roleplaying and to roleplay with, so there is no need to feel good/bad if it doesn't come to fruition. I personally think it'd be interesting if it did, if not just because it could easily promote future roleplaying to come from it.

Ultimaly, play your character and have fun with it!

-Rai

[Yale]

Not sure how out-of-character or in-character these thoughts will be. I can read a lot at work sometimes while I research stuff for my job, but not posting. Home now but it’s getting a bit late now to figure out how/in what frame of mind to deal with this. Also not sure how Yale will deal with this revelation yet or even if he’s heard or seen any of this yet. Thank goodness I had a four day vacation wrapped around my last just finished writing spat. *grins*

Here we go. I think any treaty this complex would be hard for Yale to swallow or agree to, good or evil parties involved on this it would not matter. He would see the principle behind the article but he would have no need for a treaty or pact to carry around. He would bring up of all the friendships, alliances, and kinship (such as Kinship Village or the Shadow Rangers for instance) that had blossomed over the many years without a treaty or formal agreement signed.

Things such as this would complicate things needlessly. We’ve always based starting points of “alliances” based on shared ideals and friendship while enemies of the Rangers of the Heart deserved our ire and wary eye through their posturing and actions. We’ve not ever signed a pact with a drow or an orc, nor giant or goblin. Not Pixies, elves, sprites, or humans. Why vampire?

Even the undead lord Krakus some of us may remember, who visited Spiritwood from time to time, was observed through wary eyes when he first visited our tavern and woods. Over time an understanding seemed to be reached by his and our actions, not from words or paper promises. He was warned of the consequences of actions and then watched. He surely did some bad things away from us and any territory we guarded or patrolled, but when he entered our groves and homelands, some type of mutual respect developed.

Perhaps you could offer the vampire something along those lines of Kracus. I pay the old bones a ton of respect by talking about him, I honestly do. Krakus earned it from me. The orc Ug’Zyx has earned non-aggression and respect from me by his actions so far. So far the vampire Alira has earned it from me through her actions. The RoH is a guild of individuals that form something greater then its many parts and formal alliances or pacts such as this are just not our style, in my opinion.

[Raina]

I understand what your sayin, and I say if that's also Yale's point of view then stick with it for sure!

There is I just imagine, a difference in how the Rangers view it and how Alira's kin view it. The neutrality is at the basic level, to ensure noone 'jumps the gun' so to speak to 'rid the woods of vampires' as humans are wont to do. The difference in the scenarios you list, Kinship, Shadow Rangers, are all Humans, and the Undead you befriended didn't live within the area.

So mostly it's perspective, and we all know how much Aly just loves paperwork. The 'agreement' in itself honestly wouldn't change the way any of the Rangers operate in reality, it's just an assurance of that more or less, and will hopefully provide less work for them in the long run.

-Rai

[Hodur]

*Hodur squints into the vague distance for a moment, considering...*

I think we've done fine in the past without vampires to protect us. I think we generally judge folk by their actions and live by the law "if it harm none then do what you will." I've nothing against their kind, if they come to the area and give me the same consideration, I see no need for papers to say so. Our law of do what you will assumes certain things. They need to know what those things are, that they must not kill humans and they must not overhunt animals. If they intend to kill orcs and ettins for their blood, then they may actually aid us in our aim of keeping the area safe for people. If they come to the area and make trouble we're going to fight them anyway, papers or no. Can they be trusted? If so, then the paper's not needed. If not, the paper doesn't mean anything.

I'm not against the paper if it helps some to make a list of what we expect, but the only authority behind the paper is our blades and they will have the final say, paper or no. Let the vampires come and let them be good neighbors or taste our blades.

Lastly, I am in general opposition to any agreement which prevents me from eating bunnies.

*picks teeth*

[Alyssia Kanath]

*mutters at Raina* ALY ...hates paperwork...

Yer the one who asked me ta' write it up....

Though....basically it is a communication issue. We are communicating to them the way they are most comfortable with and understand. Their kind are all about....official...document...sort of...elaborately worded...contracts. So for them such a thing is easier to understand and referance to.

[Cralecat73]

Welcome Home Tugs Im playing World of Warcraft these days, but saw your post here and had to stop by and say hi Good to see youre around and doing well