Ederaachamh
06-13-2007, 11:58 AM
In case anyone is not aware, there have been instances where players have been harassed by the opposite side healing the mobs that they are fighting. When I say harassed, I mean that they follow the player around and make sure he isn't able to kill anything. Obviously this is in very poor form, and I'm sure none of us would do that. (Now, I assume when this guy says "everywhere" he means to different quests and areas and mobs.)
HOWEVER. There is a grey area, and thats the public quests where it's a competition between both sides. For those not aware, one of the public quests involves a standoff between dwarves and greenskins, and the public quest for each side is to kill 100 of the opposite side. The first side to do that, wins stage 1 and triggers stage 2.
Here's my post on that:
-quote-
I agree in general that mobs should not be "healable" in a non-pvp zone, to prevent griefing of the type experienced by some people.
However, it's sad that it will affect a public quest such as the kron komar gap quest where two sides have opposing goals, and it's a race to get your side to win.
In my opinion, specific quests like that should have the ability for the opposing team to heal their guards. It allows for more tactics, you can either heal your guards or kill the other guards. In this specific case, think of this as "RvR-lite". The enemy can't kill you directly, but can prevent your goal from being achieved. However, no one can "die" directly at the hands of the other, and that's an important distinction.
Think about it: You have 1 gob and 1 dwarf. There are two options:
1) either to race each other by killing as fast as you can to achieve stage 1, or
2) prevent the other guy from killing a guard, but at the same time not achieving your goal either.
So you say, well what if he grabs his friend. Well in that case, it's 2 vs 1 anyway, and if the only option was the race, they would win anyway, because they can kill faster.
Making the quest in an RvR zone would defeat the purpose of that particular quest, which is a competitive quest but in a "safe" zone. By all means make OTHER similar quests available in RvR zones, but that would change the dynamic of those quests. Quests in RvR zones usually just boil down to bloodshed. Would you really go around killing mobs when other players are available to be killed? Making the healer tagged for RvR is not a solution either, because it effectively eliminates option 2.
And with more people doing the quest, it becomes more interesting. You could have some working offense (killing enemy guards) and some working defense (healing friendly guards). If you have enemy healers, you'd have to coordinate to assist each other to kill guards.
All in all, it brings extra dimensions to the quest.
Now, sure, there are a few issues to solve.
a) First would be the renown bug where you get renown for healing a guard that kills another player. That's a bug, and should be fixed. No renown should be awarded, so it can't be farmed.
b) There should be a level cap appropriate to the quest for who gets to heal. Otherwise you get a level 40 healing a guard that level 6's are trying to kill, and that's not a contest.
c) ONLY mobs that are in such types of DESIGNED quests should be healable, outside of the RvR zone, like I mentioned at the start. All other mobs not healable.
Apart from that I can't see any other problems. Sure, it means sometimes you just wont be able to do that quest, but this is RvR-lite! That's what's special about it. You won't die to other players, but you can be prevented from reaching your goal. Just like you can't expect to finish your RvR quests anytime you want. If greenskins have the run of the quest at the moment, go off and do the "safe" quests for now, or rally more realm mates to COMPETE!
Obviously a lot more difficult to implement, and it's probably going to be just eliminated by making mobs non-healable. Which is kinda sad. Just my opinion.
-endquote-
Anyway until there's official word, I would suggest we don't heal our guards anymore. Some people are screaming harassment, and ban sticks are being waved.
HOWEVER. There is a grey area, and thats the public quests where it's a competition between both sides. For those not aware, one of the public quests involves a standoff between dwarves and greenskins, and the public quest for each side is to kill 100 of the opposite side. The first side to do that, wins stage 1 and triggers stage 2.
Here's my post on that:
-quote-
I agree in general that mobs should not be "healable" in a non-pvp zone, to prevent griefing of the type experienced by some people.
However, it's sad that it will affect a public quest such as the kron komar gap quest where two sides have opposing goals, and it's a race to get your side to win.
In my opinion, specific quests like that should have the ability for the opposing team to heal their guards. It allows for more tactics, you can either heal your guards or kill the other guards. In this specific case, think of this as "RvR-lite". The enemy can't kill you directly, but can prevent your goal from being achieved. However, no one can "die" directly at the hands of the other, and that's an important distinction.
Think about it: You have 1 gob and 1 dwarf. There are two options:
1) either to race each other by killing as fast as you can to achieve stage 1, or
2) prevent the other guy from killing a guard, but at the same time not achieving your goal either.
So you say, well what if he grabs his friend. Well in that case, it's 2 vs 1 anyway, and if the only option was the race, they would win anyway, because they can kill faster.
Making the quest in an RvR zone would defeat the purpose of that particular quest, which is a competitive quest but in a "safe" zone. By all means make OTHER similar quests available in RvR zones, but that would change the dynamic of those quests. Quests in RvR zones usually just boil down to bloodshed. Would you really go around killing mobs when other players are available to be killed? Making the healer tagged for RvR is not a solution either, because it effectively eliminates option 2.
And with more people doing the quest, it becomes more interesting. You could have some working offense (killing enemy guards) and some working defense (healing friendly guards). If you have enemy healers, you'd have to coordinate to assist each other to kill guards.
All in all, it brings extra dimensions to the quest.
Now, sure, there are a few issues to solve.
a) First would be the renown bug where you get renown for healing a guard that kills another player. That's a bug, and should be fixed. No renown should be awarded, so it can't be farmed.
b) There should be a level cap appropriate to the quest for who gets to heal. Otherwise you get a level 40 healing a guard that level 6's are trying to kill, and that's not a contest.
c) ONLY mobs that are in such types of DESIGNED quests should be healable, outside of the RvR zone, like I mentioned at the start. All other mobs not healable.
Apart from that I can't see any other problems. Sure, it means sometimes you just wont be able to do that quest, but this is RvR-lite! That's what's special about it. You won't die to other players, but you can be prevented from reaching your goal. Just like you can't expect to finish your RvR quests anytime you want. If greenskins have the run of the quest at the moment, go off and do the "safe" quests for now, or rally more realm mates to COMPETE!
Obviously a lot more difficult to implement, and it's probably going to be just eliminated by making mobs non-healable. Which is kinda sad. Just my opinion.
-endquote-
Anyway until there's official word, I would suggest we don't heal our guards anymore. Some people are screaming harassment, and ban sticks are being waved.